48 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1999, Canada

Journals of the Senate

2nd Session, 36th Parliament

---

Issue 6

Thursday, November 4, 1999
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

---

The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, DeWare, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Lewis, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

*Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, *Bolduc, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, *Carney, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, *De Bané, DeWare, *Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Ghitter, Gill, *Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Lewis, *Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, *Stollery, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, *Wilson

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

As an expression of respect to Canada's War Veterans and War dead, tributes were paid. Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Government Notices of Motions

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perry (Poirier):

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday, November 16, 1999, at 2:00 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills

The Honourable Senator Hays presented a Bill S-10, An Act to amend the National Defence Act, the DNA Identification Act and the Criminal Code.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Tuesday, November 16, 1999.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Introduction and First Reading of Senate Public Bills

The Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C., presented a Bill S-11, An Act to amend the Criminal Code to prohibit coercion in medical procedures that offend a person's religion or belief that human life is inviolable.

The Bill was read the first time.

The Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lewis, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Tuesday, November 16, 1999.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., tabled the following:

Second Report of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association, which represented Canada at the meeting of the Sub-Committee on the Future of the Armed Forces, held in Ankara and Istanbul, Turkey, from June 27 to 30, 1999. -Sessional Paper No. 2/36-122.

_____________________

The Honourable Senator Boudreau, P.C., tabled the following:

News Release, dated November 4, 1999, issued by Agriculture and Agri Food Canada, entitled: "Support Boosted for Canada's Farmers".-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-123S.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Second reading of Bill C-6, An Act to support and promote electronic commerce by protecting personal information that is collected, used or disclosed in certain circumstances, by providing for the use of electronic means to communicate or record information or transactions and by amending the Canada Evidence Act, the Statutory Instruments Act and the Statute Revision Act.

The Honourable Senator Kirby moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lewis, that the Bill be read the second time.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Second reading of Bill C-7, An Act to amend the Criminal Records Act and to amend another Act in consequence.

The Honourable Senator Fraser moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gill, that the Bill be read the second time.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 3 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Motions

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Orders No. 1 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Consideration of the Fourth Report of the Committee of Selection (membership of various Committees), presented in the Senate on November 3, 1999.

The Honourable Senator Mercier moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stewart, that the Report be adopted.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting.

Other

Orders No. 8 (motion) and 2 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

INQUIRIES

The Honourable Senator Cools called the attention of the Senate:

(a) to persons of Canadian birth who sat as members of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom, including Ontario-born Edward Blake, Liberal Minister of Justice of Canada 1875-1877 also Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada 1880-1887, and New-Brunswick-born the Right Honourable Bonar Law, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom 1922-1923, and Ontario-born Sir Bryant Irvine, Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom 1976-1982;

(b) to persons of Canadian birth who sat as members of the House of Lords of the United Kingdom, including the Right Honourable Richard B. Bennett, Prime Minster of Canada 1930-1935, and Lord Beaverbrook, Cabinet Minister in the United Kingdom in 1918 and 1940-1942;

(c) to persons of British birth born in the United Kingdom or the Dominions and Colonies who have served in the Senate and the House of Commons of Canada including the Right Honourable John Turner, Prime Minister of Canada 1984 also Liberal Leader of the Opposition l984-1990 and myself, a sitting black female Senator born in the British West Indies;

(d) to persons of Canadian citizenship who were members of the Privy Council of the United Kingdom including the Prime Ministers of Canada, the Supreme Court of Canada Chief Justices, and some Cabinet Ministers of Canada including the Leader of the Government in the Senate 1921-1930 and 1935-1942 the Right Honourable Senator Raoul Dandurand appointed to the United Kingdom Privy Council in 1941;

(e) to the 1919 Nickle Resolution, a motion of only the House of Commons of Canada for an address to His Majesty King George V and to Prime Minister R.B. Bennett's 1934 words in the House of Commons characterizing this Resolution, that:

"That was as ineffective in law as it is possible for any group of words to be. It was not only ineffective, but I am sorry to say, it was an affront to the sovereign himself. Every constitutional lawyer, or anyone who has taken the trouble to study this matter realizes that that is what was done.";

(f) to the words of Prime Minister R.B. Bennett in a 1934 letter to J.R. MacNicol, MP that:

"So long as I remain a citizen of the British Empire and a loyal subject of the King, I do not propose to do otherwise than assume the prerogative rights of the Sovereign to recognize the services of his subjects." ;

(g) to the many distinguished Canadians who have received honours since 1919 from the King or Queen of Canada including the knighting in 1934 of Sir Lyman Duff, Supreme Court of Canada Chief Justice, and in 1935 of Sir Ernest MacMillan, musician, and in 1986 of Sir Bryant Irvine, parliamentarian, and in 1994 of Sir Neil Shaw, industrialist, and in 1994 of Sir Conrad Swan, advisor to Prime Minister Lester Pearson on the National Flag of Canada;

(h) to the many distinguished Canadians who have received 646 orders and distinctions from foreign non-British, non-Canadian sovereigns between 1919 and February 1929;

(i) to the legal and constitutional position of persons of Canadian birth and citizenship, in respect of their ability and disability for their membership in the United Kingdom House of Lords and House of Commons, particularly Canadians domiciled in the United Kingdom holding dual citizenship of Canada and of the United Kingdom;

(j) to the legal and constitutional position of Canadians at home and abroad in respect of entitlement to receive honours and distinctions from their own Sovereign, Queen Elizabeth II of Canada, and to the position in respect of their entitlement to receive honours and distinctions from sovereigns other than their own, including from the sovereign of France the honour, the Ordre Royale de la Légion d'Honneur;

(k) to those honours, distinctions, and awards that are not hereditary in character such as life peerages, knighthoods, military and chivalrous orders; and

(l) to the recommendation by the United Kingdom Prime Minister Tony Blair to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II for the appointment to the House of Lords as a non-hereditary peer and lord of Mr. Conrad Black a distinguished Canadian,publisher, entrepreneur and also the Honorary Colonel of the Governor General's Foot Guards of Canada.

After debate, The Honourable Senator LeBreton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Stewart moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lewis:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs have power to engage the services of such counsel and technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purpose of its examination and consideration of such bills, subject-matters of bills and estimates as are referred to it.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Stewart moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C.:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs be empowered to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud (L'Acadie-Acadia):

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

---